BM: Another question, and this is something we came across a while ago, we'd heard Techniquest described as a "1st generation" science discovery centre and [Explore@Bristol] described as a "3rd". I'm not sure that you would agree with that characterisation but what would that mean to you?
CJ: It's rubbish ((laughter)). It was an attempt for - an attempt for people to position themselves as somewhere that they weren't. And, I mean I don't know that Bristol, whether Bristol is using that phrase these days but ((pause))
When the millennium commission funded quite a number of centres, there were about 15 or, maybe as many as, it depends on how you define a science and discovery centre but certainly about 15 centres at a total capital cost of getting on for 6, 700 million pounds were funded. There was clearly an attempt to suggest that these were something different, newer and by implication better than what had gone before. And - one way of doing that would be to consign the existing provision to the dustbin of history by suggesting they were sort of 1st generation things and we were all moving on now, weren't we. And if you choose to describe a place like Techniquest as a hands-on science centre and you think of it as a, a group of exhibits that children run around in and then disappear - in other words the limited facility that we offered when were in phase 1 - then of course, you know, that was our first generation, but since we've been in phase one we have expanded our education enormously, we've got - a huge range of public programmes and out-reach activities and other facilities and we engage with the public in many many different ways that we didn't and couldn't in those days. And so, we are ahead of the army rather than behind in many respects. And if there is in fact somebody out there who's still attempting to consign us to that dustbin of history, I'd be very interested to know and I would be out there challenging it very strongly indeed. Because I, I would challenge anybody to point out what Bristol or anybody else is doing that is in fact different either in kind or in scale - from what we're offering. Perhaps in, scale no I don't know even in scale, I mean. Clearly if you've got a very large complex with a range of different experiences, I mean but there is nothing about an IMAX theatre that makes it 3rd generation, I mean there've been IMAX theatres for years. I mean, you know a big film on a screen, fine, very spectacular, very enjoyable but it doesn't do anything that hasn't been going on for a very long time.