BS: So could you tell me a little bit more then about who you're thinking of and what you're thinking of when you're designing an exhibit.
DS: We are thinking about the kids, generally because - we - in terms of ergonomics and stuff, we always cater for - kid height, for kid eye-level, for kid. and, it does mean as an adult - I mean if I go round science centres as an adult I think "Oh that button's in the wrong place and I can't really read that graphic properly" it's kind of because they're not designing it for me. So - we're usually thinking about that and we're usually thinking are kids that age going to be able to - cope with this. And what's really interesting, is that often, the kids younger than what we expect to be able to use an exhibit, use it and use it even better, and adults can't seem to cope with it. And it's actually - just, almost impossible actually to predict and usually you can only really learn from watching how people use something. Because - it's really weird how that - with the, the drum exhibit that we're developing the MusiQuest, one of the guys in the workshop has little toddlers who are about 2 and they can use it no problem you know, they're quite happy, you know, they'll hit the drums and, it's quite amazing what they can cope with as a 2 year old and yet you ask an adult and they go like "Oh I don't know what to do." ((laughs)) So, but yeah, I think, I think, when we're designing it we always kind of, think in, I think I probably think "what's a 7 year old going to make of this."