BM: Yes that's a very interesting answer. . . . Earlier you gave a really interesting answer as how you saw science as a form cultural life. In that kind of very broad way, would you regard yourself as a scientist?
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TS: Right. It is difficult. People would say I am a scientist I would say not really because real scientists are people who actually produce the knowledge in science and that isn't my forte and I've never really been a research scientist. I've been someone who if you like sifts through things that we know already and presents them at a suitable sort of level either to kids when I was a school teacher, or to students and intending teachers when I trained teachers and now to the various audiences that I- so I'm- I'm if you like a science communicator more than a scientist. I mean I've got a science background I - if people push me I'd say yes I am physicist I suppose. But really my view in a place like this - is that science is something that is part of our culture and ought to be - a deeply significant part of our education. And I dislike the idea that you can be an educated person without knowing any science. I think that you are a stunted educated person if you don't. And I think you are misguided if you regard it as something that can be taken or left. Because it is - hugely important from a social point of view. We've got a technological society and I think that - you are likely to be a hap- I don't know about a happier but certainly probably a better citizen if you understand at some reasonable sort of level the technological background of things. You don't need to understand computers - to be able to use them. You don't need to understand cell phone networks and things like that. But I think it is - it is - it is a nice thing and I regard it as an important thing to be aware of the staggering complexity of all of these things and the fact that we can muster them, engineer them and use them. And it gives you a better view of what people are like and what humanity is like if you have some kind of concept of what we are able to do. Rather than just taking it as the background, that is, this is the jungle happen to be inhabiting at the moment but to be aware of - how we have managed to construct is I think culturally important. In the same way that when you look at a building you don't just see it as a building but you see it as a beautiful object and you see it as a, a staggering piece of construction. That is, that something which you should be amazed that we're able to do it.