BS: So in terms of what you do when you build an exhibit where - does the art begin and where does the science begin? How do those 2 things work together?
DS: That's a problem all engineers face. In this country - I'm saying about it being separate. Basically you go to university and do engineering and - don't get to do any kind of art type stuff. Or you go to art college and don't get to do any technical type stuff. And then in industry you have these product designers who've gone to art college who're all concerned with the aesthetic and the the kind of how it's visually going to be. And you have these engineers who only - concerned about how it's going to work. And - there's a certain - conflict. And - my degree was, all the people on my degree were kind of people who actually were quite arty but wanted to do to be able to understand the technical side because it's the whole form v function debate which has gone on for decades, centuries probably about, should something - is it- is something beautiful if it works well or is it more important that it looks beautiful and sacrifice the functionality of it. Function v form. Oh that's the kind of stuff we had to write essays about in school.